RE: Closure on the “Non
Qual” pension loss repair:
Date: 11/11/2014 8:49:32 PM
Subject: pension loss
I am writing to ask our readership to weigh in on how they feel about pursuing some kind of closure on the injustice we
suffered regarding the loss of our pensions.Almost ten years have passed and I
am asking if we really have a legitimate gripe that will stand up to public
scrutiny. May we get some expert opinion, will the pilot group who met with
management give us details of that
experience?
A story in the Wall Street Journal of 10/28/14 tells of the threat to corporate
pension plans and what is being done to stave off that threat. A shift from
defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans such as a 401k, where the
employee is largely responsible for saving and investment choices is taking
place. The story also explained that a rising life expectancy due to fewer
smokers and better health care is causing corporations to unload the risk of
running a pension plan by offering cash buy-outs or transferring the liability
to an insurance company. Not one word was said about just getting rid of the
pension obligation through the bankruptcy
courts.
A well written 1/4 page info-ad placed several times in national journals like
the WSJ and USA Today telling the public of our misfortune will serve to warn
other employees that their pensions are not secure.We must be absolutely sure
of our story so as not to come off as sour grape buffoons. Hopefully we might
get some sympathy from our elected representatives to put some pressure on now
successful Delta. If anything, it would give me some closure and expose
Delta for what it did to the affected “Spirit of Delta” employees. Willie
Kattula- ret 2004 skatman@bellsouth.net
++++
Hello Willie,
Rob Moser here.
Mark Sztanyo forwarded your email to
me and I will respond to your questions.
I was the originator of the petition
that I and 3300+ other
individuals signed and delivered
individually to all of the Board of
Directors and the CEO, Richard
Anderson.
After a delayed response, where we
were requesting an audience with
Richard, we were "invited
" to meet with Rob Kight, senior vice
president of pensions, etc, at
Delta. There were four of us in
attendance, Alan Price, Scott
Murray, Mark Sztanyo, and myself. We
came armed with all of the necessary
financial information to show
that the percentage of our pensions
that were not being paid was well
above what CEO Grinstein said we
would forfeit, and certainly,
percentage-wise, far more than the
retired ground employees who
suffered very minor, if any,
reductions in their pensions.
Rob Kight attended the meeting with
one of his assistants. Also in
attendance was a Delta attorney who
specialized in pensions, and
retirement benefits. Kight asked if
we had any objection to this
attorney being present, to which we
replied that it might help since
he would be able to answer some
legal questions that might arise
during our discussion.
We held a "rehearsal
meeting" the day prior to the meeting with Kight,
and asked very knowledgeable DP3
board trustee, to attend the rehearsal
and coach us, as necessary, on
certain topics.
The meeting lasted several hours and
we presented our case to Rob
Kight. His response was a canned
response, which we expected, and he
said that he would take our
presentation and concerns "forward" but
"because of the ruling of the
bankruptcy court", he did not anticipate
any change in our status as
"unsecured creditors".
The “final” response, which we
received almost 3 months later, was the letter
that was published in the weekly
blog from Mark Sztanyo.
Additional attempts have been made
with various bankruptcy law
groups, and other law groups to
attempt to challenge Delta's win in
the bankruptcy court. The bankruptcy
court issued a "plan of
reorganization" and a
"discharge order" which, by law, had to be
challenged within 180 days of the
court decision. Once the 180 days
expire, there is no legal challenge
to the bankruptcy decision. There
were personal challenges by several
pilots but they were not able to
get any traction.
No law firm that we contacted was
willing to pursue Delta through any
other avenue, either out of fear of
tangling with a major fortune 500
corporation, or recognizing that the
bankruptcy rulings rarely have been
successfully challenged.
The USAir pilots wanted to challenge
the law and were told that if
they lost, they would incur all of
the associated court costs, legal
fees etc. As a result, their attempt
was dropped.
Last year, in November 2013, I was
introduced to a law group by my
personal attorney in Atlanta. We (Alan
Price, Scott Murray, my attorney,
and myself) met with this group for
several hours to try and find some way
to either re-open the bankruptcy
case or see
if there was any other avenue to try
and recover the portion of our
pension that Delta "owed"
us. This law firm took our plight under
review and investigated the possible
avenues of recourse that we could
employ to try and right the wrong
that had been done to our 3500+
former Delta pilots.
This law firm met with several
bankruptcy law groups and held several
internal meetings to try and find
ways to recover the moneys that we
were screwed out of by Delta
management.
To quote one of the attorneys, he
said, “the sun has set on the
bankruptcy proceedings, but the sun
never sets on fraud."
So, it appears the only possible
recourse that we have is to FIND the fraud and
use it either in a legal setting or
demonstrating through whatever
means necessary that fraud was
committed in an intentional and
unethical (illegal) manner. The
primary method of doing that would be
to find correspondence that would
provide the "smoking gun".
We are well aware that there were
financial transactions that were
quite questionable, but we have to
prove that they were illegal or
fraudulent.
I have not provided the name of this
law firm, at their request. This
firm is providing support to other law
firms that are involved in
matters that are not supportive of
Delta's legal positions, and they
have requested that they remain off
the radar. I am complying with
that request.
As to your thoughts about
publicizing our situation:
It would take millions of dollars to
try and get our voices heard. And
Delta would counter that attempt
with a barrage of information, valid
or not, showing that we had received
a significant portion of our
expected retirement dollars and they
had fully complied with the law.
As to placing a 1/4 page ad in the
Wall Street Journal, I would put
that in the same category as one
pilot walking with a picket sign on
the sidewalk of the Atlanta Airport.
Politically, there was an attempt to
engage Senator Isaakson and
Senator Chambliss when the
bankruptcy took place. Keep in mind that
politicians, Republican, Democrat,
or whatever, only have one interest
in mind, and that is going where the
money is for their re-election
campaign. If you were a politician, would
you count on 3500 cheap-assed
old fart airline pilots?? or a major
corporation earning billions of
dollars for your re-election piggy
bank??
I understand that you are
frustrated, bitter, angry, etc., by the fact
that almost 10 years have elapsed
since the bankruptcy and we still
have not been treated like the
professional pilots that we were for 30
plus years working for a company
that we dedicated our best efforts to
provide the highest level of safety
and customer service that we could
and that we did.
We, your fellow pilots, share your
anger and frustration. I work as a
flight instructor in Korea, working
for about the same monthly amount
that I should be receiving as my
EARNED, DEFERRED income, referred to as
a "pension."
When I talk to people who ask me if
I am a "retired" airline pilot, my
response is "no, I am a FORMER
airline pilot who worked for Delta for
35 years but had to resign so as to
receive a partial pension payment,
because of a management team that
stole part of my pension from the
company treasury and laughed all the
way to the bank" (Leo Mullin,
Michelle Burns and their executive
gang of thieves)
Angry?? Damn right I'm angry, but
the bankruptcy courts in the USA are
not there to protect the employees,
they are there to protect the
corporations from harm.
I don't know if this answers your
questions, but rest assured that I,
and many other pilots, have given it
our best efforts during the past
3 years. If I knew the key to
correcting this terrible situation, I
would surely turn it.
On October 1st, a good friend of
mine, a former United pilot, took his
life because he was out of money,
very depressed, and unable to
reconcile his situation with any
hope for the future.
Most would not have worried about their
retirement dollars while they were a
young, hard working pilot working
for the best managed airline in the
airline industry? With that thought
in mind, I don’t really think that
any ads in the WSJ will have any
effect on a 30 year old
reading it? My children,
who are in their mid 20's, are VERY tuned in
to the realities of providing for
their own retirement, but the only
reason that they are tuned in is
because they have watched their dad
live through the debacle of the
Delta bankruptcy and the after effects
of that disaster.
I would like to help you with
closure, but reality is reality. Every
pilot is different. There are those
who closed this chapter of their
lives the day after the bankruptcy
ruling; there are others who wake
up every morning pissed off at DINO,
Delta in Name Only.
There are days when I never think
about what should have
been...........there are other days,
however, when I read the Atlanta Journal
and see
the insane profits that Delta is
making and realize that a significant
portion of that profit was built on
the backs of pilots who got
screwed by Delta as well as ALPA.
Those are tough days and I would
give 24/7/365 to try and turn back
the clock and do things
differently. But I now choosing not to live in the rear
view mirror of life
and accept that which I cannot change.
I and many of my fellow Delta pilots
certainly tried.
Kind Regards
Rob Moser
++++
From: William Kattula <skatman@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: your email to Mark Sztanyo
To: robert moser <rmoser47@gmail.com>
Rob-I thank you for your quick and thorough reply and I will consider
it the closure I was
looking for.I also want to thank you and your
group for doing all the leg and head work that it took to
put the
meeting together.I will remain committed to any further
action you
guys come up with in the future but for the time being Iam
putting the
issue behind me-Thanx again.ps you can fwd my reply to Mark
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