Pension - HL 178 (2)

Capt Dempsey’s original DP3 email that has started a discussion – What do you think?

Mark Sztanyo,

 I have supported DP3 since it began, and I have contributed to all of the requests for contributions. I am a member in Good Standing! My Retirement Pension promised over $6,000 per month. I now receive only $1519.  per month from PBGC. I have lost my Pension Benefit. I feel that your request for another $150 is like buying a lottery ticket!

 The Delta Bankruptcy is history and we should receive what we were contractually promised.

David D.Dempsey

41 Vanguard Way

Dallas, TX 75243 

dddemp@mac.com

 

From: Skipget@aol.com

Date: 8/6/2013 11:01:29 AM

To: misc@pilotcommunication.net

Subject: Lost Pensions

 

I am not a member of DP 3 because I am a realist.  I appreciate their efforts to restore our benefits but I am very, pessimistic about that coming to fruition. History has shown, whether it is Enron, Eastern, or a host of other corporations, the employees mean nothing to management despite their rhetoric.  I am infuriated we, the Delta pilot retirees, have been thrown under the bus with no consideration to the dire consequences that results from such a drastic event. There was a time I was so proud to wear my uniform and work for Delta.  That was then and so much has changed. Had many of us been given enough time to prepare to find other work prior to our age preventing us from getting another  flying job it would have been much easier to bear. Myself, like many others I now face a bleak future. Giving Northwest pilots their retirement benefit was the most insulting thing that I have ever experienced from Delta management. I am not in any way interested in Delta news, profits, sales records new routes etc.  My uniform has ben thrown in the trash just as Delta has done to me.  RH" Skip" Getelman 777 retired. 37 Years of  loyal service.

Editor: Skip; I, and thousands of other Delta retired pilots, share the anger and disappointment that is expressed above.  I cannot express strongly enough how often I come face to face with this hurt and anger.  It is, of course, totally justified.   There are different responses to this anger and hurt,  and you represent a number of others who have thrown in the towel and are not engaged whatsoever.  To me that is unfortunate, because things never change for the better without effort.  The DP3 is led by terrific guys volunteering much of their effort and time for the benefit of many.  Very noble indeed!  Rob Moser is leading a similar effort concerning the lost Non-Qualified benefits.   We have all been beaten down and some simply want to turn the page and forget they even flew for Delta.  That is not me, nor many many others who are engaged and “fighting” for justice.  I am proud of what my company used to be and for my contribution as a captain.  But the company has wronged a group and it is high time that it be made right!  I suggest the fight is worth it and I also believe in the end will be fruitful.  My heartfelt plea to many who share your sentiments is to not give in but to fight.  And fight for what is only fair and right. 

 

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From: "Tom Seever" <tomseever@mindspring.com>
Date: Aug 7, 2013 5:34 PM
Subject: Answer to David Dempsey
To: <marksztanyo

Mark,

               Below and/or attached (your choice) is an answer to David Dempsey’s concern comparing the DP3 effort with buying a lottery ticket. We all understand his concern, and appreciate the fact he brought it up publically so we can address it for all of your readers:

                David,

               I just read your letter to Mark Sztanyo and I think it deserves some discussion. Before I go further, the good news is you are already a fully paid up HR member, so there is no need to send any more money at this time.  I think I speak for the DP3 board as well as all retired Delta pilots in saying we share your frustration with the losses we have experienced.

               But I think there is a real misconception of the risk and return involved when you compare supporting the DP3 effort on your behalf with buying a lottery ticket. First let’s look at the potential return:  You are fairly typical.  If we win one part of your appeal that we consider a very strong argument you would see an increase of about $900/month, with back pay to 2006.  If you live to be 85 years old, that means you would receive a total of about $195,000 in additional benefits.  If we were to win another part of your appeal that pension increase would grow to a $1500/month gain or a total of $325,000 over the remainder of that 85 year lifespan.

               Currently, we (all DP3 HR members) have spent a total of $1800 apiece over the last 10 years to address both the bankruptcy issues and the PBGC issues. These efforts have in the past included legal and administrative costs as well as an extensive Congressional lobbying effort. Currently your contributions are going into the bank to ensure we are prepared for potential legal action. We hope that won’t be necessary and we can return any unused funds to you and the rest of the HR members.

               If we are forced to take legal action against the PBGC we think our chances of winning are at least 50/50.  I suspect the PBGC agrees, or at least considers the chances high enough to have not only stalled for years, but to have allotted significant legal resources to our case.

               Just to make the numbers easy, let’s say it takes another $150 apiece to finish this process – for a total of $1950.  That would be 1%, or one, one hundredth of the lesser of the two potential gain scenarios ($195,000).  So if you accept the 50/50 chance of winning  - this is like flipping a coin but if you win you get 100 times the payout. Nobody would turn that down.

               Even if you think our chances are less – let’s say 10%, or 1 in 10 – you are still getting a potential return of 100 times your investment. Better than any Las Vegas bet by a factor of 10.  This is a far, far better investment than any bet you could make – including the lottery.  So it amazes me that there are actually retirees out there who did not take advantage of this opportunity to stand up for themselves and their families.

               I would also like to make an important point:  DP3 is currently very well funded and our intent in continuing to solicit contributions is to ensure we have the requisite wherewithal, prior to mounting any legal action. 

      

Tom Seever

DP3 Trustee/Retirement Committee Chairman

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