Following Two Articles
Concern “Subsidies” and the “Bigs”, with emphasis on Delta. VERY INTERESTING!!!! These are written by one
of the head editors of Air Transport World, Karen Walker. Karen is bold and a strong journalist. Think you’ll find interesting the following:
ATW Re-Print.
US carriers are not backing off Gulf campaign, but may be changing tactics
Some thoughts on yesterday’s panel
debate on the Gulf carriers at the CAPA Americas
Aviation Summit in Las Vegas.
I observed the majority of the
debate, which was moderated by Pillsbury Law partner Ken Quinn, and it led me
to believe that while I don’t think the three US carriers involved are going to
drop their subsidy and unfair competition accusations against the three Gulf
carriers, I do think they are shifting the strategic basis of their campaign.
First thing to note is that
only two of the complaining US carriers – American and Delta – took part and
only one of the Gulf carriers, Etihad.
American was represented by the
highly experienced and respected Will Ris, senior VP government affairs, while
Ben Hirst – one of America’s most able lawyers in or out of the aviation
industry – stumped for Delta as its chief legal officer. Jim Callaghan, general
counsel & company secretary, was Etihad’s man on the spot.
There was one other airline
executive on the panel – FedEx Express senior VP & general counsel Rush
O’Keefe. FedEx, for whom Open Skies and fifth freedom rights are critical to
its air cargo business and which also has a Dubai hub, is opposing the campaign
by the three US passenger airlines.
The other panelists were former
ALPA president, now Americans for Fair Skies lobbying organization president
Lee Moak. AFS is in the anti-Gulf carrier camp and is particularly focused on
publicizing the threat to US airline jobs that the Gulf carriers allegedly
pose. US Travel Association president Roger Dow and World Travel &
Tourism Council president David Scowsill also took part.
Inevitably, the debate was
dominated by the four airline panelists both in terms of airplay allocated by
the moderator and to whom audience questions were directed. All four airline
lawyers made strong opening statements and defended their positions well under
questioning. Ris was diplomatic and charming, but he pushed back hard when
Quinn compared the customer service products of the Gulf carriers to those of
the US majors. Ris sharply criticized Quinn for implying that US carrier seats
and service were inferior and he pointed out that American was investing
heavily in new customer products, “and doing it with our own money”.
The debate did veer off into
some strange analogies. Callaghan invoked a poker game where only one side (the
US carriers) dealt the cards or was permitted to see all of them, and which
promised an ace of spades, but delivered a three of diamonds. Hirst countered
with an (American) football analogy, which lost me totally as I’ve never seen a
game (a soccer analogy I might have understood).
But because Hirst and Ris both
kicked the debate off with statements that essentially said ‘this is not about
airlines, but about fair trade and all we want is for the US government to talk
with the UAE and Qatar governments’, then I can see why some are wondering
whether this dispute may already have peaked?
I don’t think the US majors are
backing away from the fight they picked. But it may be that, behind the scenes,
there’s a realization that some of the more highly-charged accusations that
have been lobbed in this campaign can be lobbed right back. And some of the
nastier stuff – repeated Arab/sheik references, an
unwarranted 9/11-terrorist remark, exploited
women crews, etc. – are without basis and neither helpful nor appropriate in
the global air transport world. At the end of the day, every one of these
airlines is first-class when it comes to safety and security standards.
Almost certainly, that smear
campaigning has made some very influential partners of the US carriers involved
take note and perhaps proffer some stern advice. IAG CEO Willie Walsh and
Emirates president Tim Clark were initially on the CAPA summit’s agenda but
were last-minute no-shows.
Walsh has made his views on
anti-Gulf campaigning very clear, withdrawing
British Airways and Iberia from the AEA association because of what he says is their protectionist stance against
the Gulf carriers. Qatar Airways has a 10% stake in IAG and BA is an extremely
important partner to American and within the oneworld global alliance (in which
American, BA and Qatar are all members).
So I don’t think the US carrier
trio is backing away from this campaign, but I do think they want to elevate it
to a more diplomatic, trade-based discussion and set it somewhat apart from
their global company brands by making it a government-to-government discussion.
Ris and Hirst both referred to
the clause in the US Open Skies agreements with the UAE and Qatar that allows
for such government consultations at any time and for any reason.
But there’s still a problem
with that, and Etihad’s Callaghan most clearly put his finger on it. He noted
that for unfair competition and subsidies to be demonstrated, it must also be
shown that harm is being done.
With the US majors sitting
where they are right now – record
profits, not especially popular with the American
traveling public, benefiting from their government-allowed consolidations and
anti-trust partnerships – I think it will be tough to demonstrate the “damage”
to government lawyers, especially as they largely do not serve the Middle East
and sub-Indian continent markets that the Gulf carriers dominate.
That may be why a public
campaign was deemed necessary. But it’s also why Callaghan’s words at the
summit panel could play large in government discussions. “The three largest
carriers not just in the US but also in the world, and which also control the
three clubs—the global alliances—that control 50% of the world’s traffic, are
trying to shut the door on any competition or potential competition. That’s
what’s going on here,” he said.
I will be moderating a free
trade panel next week at the Phoenix International
Aviation Symposium May 6-8. It will not be a US
vs Gulf carrier panel, rather a broader discussion of what constitutes fair
competition in the global air transport market, Open Skies status, and where
global alliances and joint ventures sit. Of course, the Gulf debate will be
discussed. I will keep you tuned.
++++++
In Open Skies war game, Gulf carriers 3: US carriers 0
Mar 5, 2015 by Karen Walker in ATW Editor's Blog
Today,
after two years of “investigation” and a largely behind-closed-doors campaign
(apart from the Delta CEO’s unfortunate CNN interview),
the three major US carriers finally made public the document that allegedly
proves their Gulf carrier rivals are operating only because of more than $40
billion subsidies from their state owners.
Representatives
of American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines held a press conference
jointly with representatives of major airline unions to defend their campaign,
provide an outline of the document, and insist that they are taking action not
because they don’t believe in Open Skies (they love the other 112 US
agreements, they just don’t like those with the UAE and Qatar) or are against
competition (“bring it on”, but it must be fair).
You
can read our news summary of the press conference here, and
responses from Emirates president Tim Clark and Qatar Group CEO Akbar Al Baker
here.
But
what was my quick take from today’s press conference? In my view, not a lot. It
only raised more questions about the US carrier CEOs’ true motivations behind
this strange campaign.
First,
any time that the three biggest international US carriers join forces – backed
solidly by their union groups – you have to wonder at the real story. Job
protectionism is fine, but – like competition itself – must be done on a sound
basis. I don’t see a case made.
Second,
if the so-called “breakthrough” (their words) by the US carrier investigation into
Gulf carrier financials was the simple discovery that they could access the
numbers via countries like New Zealand and Singapore, why did it take two years
to compile a report? And, if the evidence is so damaging, why was this not made
public much earlier, rather than shuffling secret documents around White House
and government rooms? Unfair competition is a serious allegation: if you have
the proof, show it and take it to Justice. The US carrier reps were posed
that question today by a reporter. Their reply: “We just didn’t.”
The
third question relates to Chapter 11, a uniquely US system
that allows airlines in dire financial straits – for whatever reason – to hold
off their creditors, wipe out debts and restructure. Outside the US, Chapter 11
is seen as a subsidy. The US carriers insisted today it was not a subsidy in
the view of the US. That’s irrelevant in a global market. It’s what counts as a
subsidy in global eyes that matters.
The
US carriers also said today that Chapter 11 means you have to shrink your
airline. So how come American Airlines, fresh out of bankruptcy protection, is
now the world’s largest carrier and investing heavily in new aircraft and
products?
I’ll
leave the last word for now to a response to the press conference from US-UAE
Business Council president Danny Sebright.
“Before
claiming government support for international competitors, the Big 3 [US
carriers] may first want to check their own balance sheets. Since 2006,
the Big 3 transferred billions of dollars of pension liabilities directly to
Uncle Sam while leaving creditors holding the bag for billions more through
multiple bankruptcies. They received billions in cash payments and
guaranteed loans in a direct government bailout while enjoying the advantages
of antitrust immunity to fix transatlantic fares with their European partners,”
Sebright said.
The
US airlines should “stop complaining and start competing,” he added.
Unless
and until American, Delta and United have a more compelling case that is not so
clearly about closing the competitive door after they got what they wanted via
Chapter 11, I suggest that’s good advice. By my count, they are already several
points behind in this game and they now risk scoring home goals.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: maurice cloutier
Date: 5/2/2015 12:18:13 PM
To: MIKE CLOUTIER
Subject: Big D
---BUT THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO RE-INSTATE THE PENSIONS--------
Subject: Big D
Or
To make your weekend most enjoyable
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: DWSkjerven@aol.com
Date: 5/1/2015 6:23:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Fw:
Wow! And here I thought our pension was
supporting some lawyers and a bankruptcy judge's lavish lifestyle.
From: redcannon51@yahoo.com
To: DWSkjerven@aol.com
Sent: 5/1/2015 11:51:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time
To: DWSkjerven@aol.com
Sent: 5/1/2015 11:51:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time
Porsche for VIP transfers at MSP, May 01, 2015. Ever wonder
what happened to our pensions???
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Guys and gals since the PCN Forum is taking a while to get its
sea legs, maybe the forum listed below will be of interest to you.
From: John B
Date: 4/22/2015 3:06:09 PM
To: Mark Sztanyo
Subject: New Forum
Another forum if anybody is interested.
New Forum in Town(sister site to the Non-Ref Flyer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.[1] They differ from chat rooms in that messages are often longer than one line of text, and are at least temporarily archived. Also, depending on the access level of a user or the forum set-up, a posted message might need to be approved by a moderator before it becomes visible.
Forums have a specific set of jargon associated with them; e.g., a single conversation is called a "thread", or topic.
A discussion forum is hierarchical or tree-like in structure: a forum can contain a number of subforums, each of which may have several topics. Within a forum's topic, each new discussion started is called a thread, and can be replied to by as many people as so wish.
Depending on the forum's settings, users can be anonymous or have to register with the forum and then subsequently log in in order to post messages. On most forums, users do not have to log in to read existing messages.
~~~
I have cobbled together a forum "http://nrfforum.theimagekey.com/" for all Non-Rev Flyer recipents, airline retiree's and active airline employee's. If you are not familiar with internet forums please go to the Wikipedia site above and read all about them. If you decide to test the waters here are a few additional things you should know.
When you arive at the initial screen you will see three topics I have set up. These are brand new so there may not even be any post's yet. As a guest you can read any post's available but that is all. Registration will allow you to post as well. If you decide to register click on the Register button, read the rules, agree, and then you will arrive at the screen where you fill out some basic stuff. Just follow the instructions. At the bottom of the screen you need to fill out a box with what you see in a colored (letters and numbers) box. You may need to try a couple of times to get it right. There is a security reason for this. Once that is done click on submit. You will see a screen telling you a message has been sent to the email address you filled out a short time before. You can then exit the forum site. Go to your email and look for a message from the forum. Open the message. I would suggest saving this email. After reading the email at the bottom is a clickable line of text. When you click on it, it sends an enable message (activate your registration) to the forum. When you go to the forum again, log in (user name & password) then you can began making a post in one of the topics. You may have a few questions once you start using the forum. Any questions email me at wallybird976@gmail.com.
By the way, for those of you who are forum veteran's I have quite a few airline logos (most of the US majors, past and present) avatars available. If you are interested let me know which carrier you want and I will email it to you. Then you can upload it to the forum. The forum Gallery is broke at this time. Also I will be looking for a forum moderator or two in the near future Please email me if you are interested. This is a work in progress.
John Bozinny
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: dickhendrickson@comcast.net
To: DWSkjerven@aol.com
Sent: 4/27/2015 11:29:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time
Subj: Home | AirlinePilotCentral.com
Airline
Pilot Central is your source for up-to-date airline pilot salary and pay,
retirement, and hiring information for over 95 US and Canadian legacy, major,
low cost, national, cargo, and pilot unions., Airline Pilots make a second
career in the fa…
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: thron1@comcast.net
To: DWSkjerven@aol.com
Sent: 4/27/2015 12:48:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time
Subj: DAL Eyesight?
Hi Dave, Brad
Engstrand has a son with interest in flying. Anyone know what Delta's
requirements are? Thanks, Wayne
To: DWSkjerven@aol.com
Sent: 4/27/2015 12:48:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time
Subj: DAL Eyesight?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
New Website Hosting the Delta
Pilot Seniority List: A Master
Delta Seniority list was started by Retired Captain Dave Davis.
DGW members Dave Roberts and Julian Black assisted in the
compilation of this list with over 18,000 names right now and it is not
complete! Below is information about WebAirlinePilot.com, a new website which hosts this
list, plus there are many other features on this Website
and it is for ALL Delta Pilots. active and retired.
Retired Delta Captain Dan Siler is the main developer and has received help from the Delta Golden Wings and others. We are all volunteers.
WebAirlinePilot.com is MOBILE ENABLED for use on ALL Smart phones, Tablets & Mobile devices. It is a work in progress. Feel free to Register as shown below.
Registration
This is a new website and all users must register ( Create Account ). Registration is free and easy. The only condition of registration is that the new user must be either an Active or Retired Airline Pilot.
Content for Registered Airline Pilots
1. After you register ( Create Account ) you will have access to featured areas such: The “Pilot Lounge”, “Pilot Forum”, and the Delta Seniority List, etc.
2. In the “Pilot Lounge” you can enter your profile information and upload a photo. There is also an area, “Create Events” where you can enter your local group meetings.
3. In the “Pilot Forum” you can create and reply to Forum topics. There is also a classified section and a Survey section.
4. Please spread the word & invite other Delta Pilots too. We hope to have a lot of useful communication & content.
Regarding the “Delta Pilot Seniority List”:
Many have inquired about the progress of the “Delta Pilot Seniority List”. The “List” itself was supplied from another source. It is a work in progress with 18,000 spreadsheet row entries.
Currently there are default items in the list (i.e. date of death) which are incorrect. Updating this list is very tedious for the editors. You may send in updates, but please be patient as it takes time to update the entries. (The dates such as 12/30/1999 for “passed” are spreadsheet list dates & not actual event dates.)
Send all “Delta Pilot Seniority List” updates to:
pilotlist@webairlinepilot.com
Please send any comments or suggestions to support@webairlinepilot.com or webmaster@deltagoldenwings.com
Retired Delta Captain Dan Siler is the main developer and has received help from the Delta Golden Wings and others. We are all volunteers.
WebAirlinePilot.com is MOBILE ENABLED for use on ALL Smart phones, Tablets & Mobile devices. It is a work in progress. Feel free to Register as shown below.
Registration
This is a new website and all users must register ( Create Account ). Registration is free and easy. The only condition of registration is that the new user must be either an Active or Retired Airline Pilot.
Content for Registered Airline Pilots
1. After you register ( Create Account ) you will have access to featured areas such: The “Pilot Lounge”, “Pilot Forum”, and the Delta Seniority List, etc.
2. In the “Pilot Lounge” you can enter your profile information and upload a photo. There is also an area, “Create Events” where you can enter your local group meetings.
3. In the “Pilot Forum” you can create and reply to Forum topics. There is also a classified section and a Survey section.
4. Please spread the word & invite other Delta Pilots too. We hope to have a lot of useful communication & content.
Regarding the “Delta Pilot Seniority List”:
Many have inquired about the progress of the “Delta Pilot Seniority List”. The “List” itself was supplied from another source. It is a work in progress with 18,000 spreadsheet row entries.
Currently there are default items in the list (i.e. date of death) which are incorrect. Updating this list is very tedious for the editors. You may send in updates, but please be patient as it takes time to update the entries. (The dates such as 12/30/1999 for “passed” are spreadsheet list dates & not actual event dates.)
Send all “Delta Pilot Seniority List” updates to:
pilotlist@webairlinepilot.com
Please send any comments or suggestions to support@webairlinepilot.com or webmaster@deltagoldenwings.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mark,
I received the following email from Mrs. Strobel. I feel you would
have a good chance of reaching somebody on your network then I could
on my mine. I will advise her I have forwarded this to you to follow up.
Thanks for your help.
John Bozinny
-----------------------
Hi John, my husband,Capt. George Strobel went west on April 8th,2012.
Besides being an airline pilot he was an aeronautical engineer. If
you wouldn't mind putting out on the internet to all the guys that I
have several tools, instruments, aeronautical books that someone may be
interested in.They can contact me at: 678-662-4275 or
770-736-9802.
Thank you so much. Joan Strobel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Full post disclaimer in left column. PCN Home Page is located at: http://pcn.homestead.com/home01.html
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