Travel / Non Revving - HL 150 (6)

Lots of buzz created by IGNITE’s proposed changes, however, the following is a re-print indicating that the changes are unlikely.

 

Dear PCN,

It seems that the feedback has been substantial and has made an impact

on the powers that be on the proposed change. The operative word now

is that the proposed change is "unlikely" to happen due to the

feedback on the subject. Yeah, chalk one up for those who put the

finger in the dike to stop the erosion. Your voice is important and

it appears to have worked.

Below is a letter form the DALRC assuring us that "it wasn't them" who

sent up the idea on travel. The 2nd letter is from Rob Kight

indicating their leanings on the issue.

+++++

From: Carl W. Brul

Date: 12/6/2012 9:37:13 AM

To: marksztanyo@gmail.com

Cc: tomtedder@aol.com; Roger Nix

Subject: The Rumor Mill

Good Morning,

This note is on the subject of the Project Ignite proposal for a

checkin time feature for retiree boarding priority. I would

appreciate it you would circulate this note to your PCN newsletter

subscribers.

Reference the email from Marty Farber in which he relates that the

Delta pass bureau made the claim that the idea of changing retiree

pass boarding priority to include checkin time came from DALRC. It

did not. The person at the Pass Bureau was wrong. The idea came from

Project Ignite.

For the record,

DALRC had no part in formulating the Project Ignite proposal for using

check in time as a boarding priority.

We did not have seat at the table.

We support the continued use of seniority as our boarding priority.

We have opposed the idea of a checkin time priority in writing to

Delta. It is too early for us to expect a response to our letter.

In response to a question from another quarter: Delta retirees have

inundated Delta offices since the now-infamous survey was announced.

I would never suggest that retirees not send any more emails, but my

sense is that we have their attention and that more emails will not

heighten their awareness very much, if at all.

Best Regards and best wishes for blessed Christmas and a prosperous

new year,

Carl W. Brul, Chairman

DALRC, Inc Board of Directors

+++++

2nd Letter by Kight:

From: Rob.Kight@delta.com

To: rogernixdelta@gmail.com, yorkieatl@aol.com,

foyeperez@bellsouth.net, sueamato2002@yahoo.com

CC: Charlotte.Johnson@delta.com

Sent: 12/6/2012 11:50:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time

Subj: Travel question feedback

Roger, Paul, Sue and Sue..thank you for the time that you have spent

with Charlotte discussing the retiree travel priority question

currently being surveyed on DeltaNet. Please see the attached (also

copied below), which is the basic response that will be sent to all

those who have written into me, Mike Campbell, Richard, Charlotte and

the Ignite team on this topic. We also plan to post this to the

Retiree Connection shortly and would encourage you to post it on your

websites and/or send it to your mailing lists. Thanks..Rob

Dear XXX:

Thank you for your feedback about the proposed change to provide

retirees with an annual allotment of six higher priority passes each

year. This proposal is the third in a series of five that is

currently being surveyed on DeltaNet to gather feedback for the final

decision process. This one, though, is the only one where the impact

is specific to retiree pass allotments. Over the past week, we have

been monitoring the online response to the survey and have heard from

a number of retirees sharing significant concerns about this proposed

change. While we will let the survey process run its scheduled course

through December 16th and announce decisions about all five potential

changes at once, I want to let you know now that it is unlikely we

will proceed with this change based on the feedback we have received

to date. A guiding principle in this effort has been that any of the

proposed changes must have overwhelming support from Delta people, and

with more than 25% currently saying they “Strongly Disagree” with the

change, it is highly unlikely we will meet that criteria on this

particular proposal. In reality, I believe that much of the reaction

that you and your fellow retirees have had has come from the fact that

we did not fully and clearly explain the proposed change and all its

nuances in the shortened form of this on-line survey. That is my

fault and not the fault of the Project Ignite team and for that, I

take full responsibility.

One of the main goals of Project Ignite was to gather and listen to

your feedback while we modernize our policies. Through that process

there was a strong feeling among both active and retired employees

that they would like to see retirees have some allowance of higher

priority passes each year. However, the overwhelming consensus from

those discussions is that active employees and their immediate pass

riders should continue to have priority boarding over retirees at all

times, as has always been the case at Delta. Our proposal would

maintain that principle, while still giving retirees some chances each

year to have priority over other retirees not using their new priority

pass, as well as over parents and non-dependent children of active

employees not travelling with the active employee. However, the

details of how we would accomplish that have not been clear. Please

know that our goal here has been to provide something of real value to

retirees and we will continue to try to do that.

Please review the FAQs below for more detail about Project Ignite and

the process that we have followed throughout this initiative.

1. What was the process to obtain feedback during Project Ignite?

Over the past 6 months, teams of employees from all over the world

came together to discuss current issues, brainstorm opportunities to

improve our policies and learn about company constraints associated

with many of our programs. As part of this process, each employee

idea was reviewed by the appropriate working team, oftentimes

resulting in healthy debate! Each group was charged with not only

considering the merits of the proposed policy change, but also to

consider how it might impact Delta people across the company as well

as any associated risks or costs with making the change. In addition,

leaders of the project held discussions with leaders of both the Delta

Pioneers and the DALRC.

2. What initiated the recommended change to retiree travel?

The Pass Travel Working Team spent a lot of time reviewing retiree

requests submitted on-line and through other channels to improve

standby boarding priority and discussed the implications of making any

change. In response to retiree requests for increased priority, the

group worked to identify an alternative solution that provides an

opportunity for some priority passes for retirees each year in

recognition of their contributions and service to the Company. It’s

important to note that each discussion with active employees was held

in the context that “we will all be retirees one day”. However, at

the end of the day, the overwhelming consensus from those discussions

is that active employees and their immediate pass riders should

continue to have priority boarding over retirees, as has always been

the case at Delta.

4. What is the policy change being recommended?

The recommendation is to provide retirees with an allotment of 6

priority passes that could be used to travel ahead of unaccompanied

parents, non-dependents, inactive employees and other retirees

traveling at the normal S3B priority. The proposed change was only to

benefit Delta retirees.

5. How do you propose to accomplish this priority?

The online poll question did not address the mechanics of how we

planned to do this. Early on in our deliberations, as well as in our

discussions with leaders of the Delta Pioneers and the DALRC, we

discussed the concept of using the basic S-3 priority code but with

the “day of departure” as the “hire date”. Essentially, this would

have meant that those retirees choosing to use the priority pass who

happened to be traveling on the same flight would compete among

themselves for boarding priority based on the time of check-in at the

airport – not based on their date of hire. This aspect of the

proposal is the one that has been the most unpopular in the feedback

received to date.

As our deliberations on this proposal have proceeded, we have

abandoned the idea of using the “day of departure” concept. Instead,

we would plan to create a new boarding classification specifically for

retirees using the higher priority pass, so that those using it would

still compete for seats among themselves using their original hire

date. However, that concept was not clearly explained in the on-line

poll

6. Why was this question included in the online survey?

Because pass travel impacts each one of us individually, the team felt

it was important to obtain feedback from all Delta people. This is

one of five proposed pass travel policy changes currently available

for employee feedback until December 16th, but it is the only one

where the impact is specific to retirees.

7. Is Delta moving forward with the proposed change?

Unlikely. While we will let the survey process run its scheduled

course through December 16th and announce decisions about all five

potential changes at once, it is unlikely we will proceed with this

change based on the feedback we have received to date. A guiding

principle in this effort has been that any of the proposed changes

must have overwhelming support from Delta people, and with 25%

currently saying they “Strongly Disagree” with the change, this

particular proposal is unlikely to meet that criteria.

Sincerely,

Rob Kight

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Gene Hall

Date: 12/3/2012 1:59:16 PM

To: Gene Hall

Subject: Joys of Pass Riding

Non-reving ATL-JNB is easy, but JNB-ATL is almost always an adventure. I have made about a half dozen round trips during the last three years, and business elite has been available every time on the out bound from ATL, but there is a warning on the Delta net that JNB is load limited..... It's the 5500 foot elevation at JNB that diminishes the aircraft performance, and causes the flight to frequently depart with empty seats and non revs standing at the ticket counter. I am too old, too tall, and beat up to spend sixteen hours in a coach seat unless it is an absolute emergency. Volcanoes erupting in Iceland, snow storms in Western Europe, and other things can fill the JNB-ATL flight up. I have only returned to ATL one time on my S-3B pass on the day planned in advance. One time, I waited ten days to get in business, and another time one day. We used 300,000 FF miles to come home a couple of years ago, and that was on Air France through CDG.

This trip originated four weeks ago, and my grandson and son in law where with me. My son in law is a surgeon, and his schedule required that he have a ticket. He was in business elite, and the plan was for my grandson to travel with me on a buddy pass. We realized the morning of travel that since I was downgraded to S-4 (his category) we would both be in coach. We bought a FF business ticket for my grandson, and I was able to get into business. They were scheduled to return on November 18, and there were no business seats available for S-3B's.

The Delta net had a placard that because of a fuel contamination problem at JNB, no non revenue passengers would be boarded at JNB for several weeks after Monday, November 19. I had to borrow 20,000 miles from American Express to come up with the 140,000 needed for the half empty flight home on Thanksgiving. I believed Delta – yeah I know, I should know better by now - I am a slow learner. Non revs were boarded on Tuesday, Wednesday, and on my Thursday flight there were two S4's. One of the flight attendants told me there was an active pilot in coach with his wife, and they had purchased tickets.

Oh well, they took the pensions, and medical from us, and now they are voting on taking our S-3B seniority. The vote will pass with a large majority, because younger retirees out number us old timers by a wide margin. I non rev at least a dozen times a year, because of going to Atlanta for medical. Last week there was an S-3B ahead of me, and that is the only time in at least two years that I have had that happen. Is there anything left to take? I have great memories from the golden years. They can't take those.....can they? Airlines run on seniority, but in this entitlement society, I would give long odds that co pilots would vote to move up to captain 6 times a year.

Now that I have vented, I feel better. In spite of the adventures of traveling JNB-ATL, it is worthwhile going to South Africa. I have been on safari three times, and it never gets old. I have a daughter living five minutes from the Sandton Gautrain station. It is a 100 mph train that runs from the terminal building every twenty minutes, and gets to Sandton in fifteen minutes. I don't mind staying there for a few extra days. I am so enthused with going to the bush that I am going to blog soon about the three times we have been there.

The Delta international business elite product is terrific. Business doesn't have Singapore's first class mahogany paneling or silk pajamas, but it is just as comfortable, even for an oversize guy like yours truly. The current management obviously has no interest in retirees, but they are running a good airline in a difficult market.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Tom Tedder

Date: 12/4/2012 10:36:42 AM

To: misc@pilotcommunication.net

Subject: Retiree Pass Travel

I sent DALRC my views on changing the retiree's travel passes and received the following from Carl Brul, Chairman, Board of Directors, DALRC on 12/4/12 :

Hi Tom,
Good to hear from you.

We have written to Delta expressing our opposition to the Project Ignite proposal and suggesting an alternate policy.

Project Ignite, to our knowledge, did not have any retirees on the committee although they did have a couple of retirees who were advisers. One of these advisors was opposed and I do not know about the other. In our letter to Delta which they will be receiving today we have offered to send a DALRC representative to meet with the Committee. It's too early to have a response to that.

We are encouraging folks to join DALRC if they are not already members. Membership is open to all retirees, spouses, and survivors of DL, NW, NE, WA, PA, and C&S. We call it the Community of Delta Retirees.

The more members we have the louder our voice will be. Go to our website www.dalrc.org and click on "Click Here To Register". Annual dues are only $35.

Best regards and Merry Christmas to the Tedder's!

Carl Brul

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

May be mute now but Bob’s and Ron’s responses to Steve Lutz’ letter and changes:

 

From: BOB TRIPP

Date: 12/3/2012 12:41:56 PM

To: misc@pilotcommunication.net

Subject: new pass policy

Here is a copy of my response to Steve Lutz.


Good letter Steve. Most of us did not realize the implications of the proposed change. On the surface it seemed like a good idea, but as you said in a very real sense it dilutes your seniority. It also means, if I interpret it correctly, if you are going on a trip which is particularly important to you, it will be necessary to use one of your special passes, or maybe two or three of them, if it's a more than one leg trip. Even then you will be competing with other people who are also doing the same thing. Therefore, it will be impossible to have any idea whether or not you will make any particular flight. How would we know how many people are using their special priority for any particular flight? So it seems that it's throwing a wild card into a process is already fraught with unknowns.
Now the question is, what is the next step in this process? Even that is not clear to me. It's difficult enough now to sift through all the possibilities when I think I have my faculties intact. What happens when I get into 80s and 90s. Will I still be able to deal with the complexity of the system, or just give up traveling?

 

+++++

Mark,

Please add my comments and forward all of them to Richard Anderson richard.anderson@delta.com and Rob Kight robert.l.kight@delta.com

My Comments:

I am opposed to the pass policy changes proposed by the IGNITE team for retirees.

The Project: IGNITE team recommends that we provide retirees with an allotment of six (6) priority passes that would allow them to be on the standby list ahead of other retirees and unaccompanied parents/non-dependents. Currently, all retirees travel using the S3B priority code along with unaccompanied parents and non-dependents. This new policy will not displace active employees or their immediate family, but would give retirees the ability to travel ahead of unaccompanied non-dependents, parents and other retirees traveling on the normal S3B priority code.

As you know, the present S-3B boarding priority includes retirees, parents of active employees and non-dependent children of active employees. In a separate recommendation from Project Ignite, employees who are on personal leave of absence will be moved from S-4 to S-3B. All four of these groups are prioritized based on the date of hire so retirees are usually at the top of the S-3B grouping.

The Project Ignite recommendation will allow retirees to select a new boarding priority within the S-3B group, that of "S-3 Day of Departure". Retirees who select the new boarding priority will be on a separate list with other retirees who have also selected the new check in time boarding priority. These retirees will be boarded ahead of other retirees and the other groups.
Finally, the change will allow persons who have a computer to check in early.

Retirees will be the only group of Delta employees that will have to compete for a seat based on a new pass policy that boards by time of check-in – not seniority. After a retiree has used all the “special” passes he/her will be placed on the bottom of the list below all the S-3 retires pass holders that have not used their passes for the rest of the year. I am opposed to this radical change in Delta pass policy.

Ron Stowe

jrstowe@windstream.net;

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