Click Here for the Urgent Petition
Supporting our Retired Pilots
Over 2000
SIGNATURES………….. ADD YOURS!!!!!!!
Petition supporting Delta Retired Pilots and appealing for a
remedy for our lost benefits.
SIGN THIS PETITION TODAY!
Petition Issues and considerations;
HOW DO I SIGN? Some can’t find Sign in Box!
Mark:
How do you sign the petition?
Gary W. Winsett
IMPORTANT SOME are having problems viewing the signing
box for the Petition. Here is the issue. When the link comes from someone who
has already signed it may look like another name has already signed it. For multiple family members it is just plain
easier if they log in from a different computer.
How can others in my family sign a petition on the same computer?
To preserve the integrity of the petition and to prevent inadvertent re-signs, we block multiple signatures from individual accounts. If more than one person is signing from a single computer, you may see a note that says "Oops! Hi John Doe! Our records indicate you have already signed this petition. If you are not John Doe , please click here to sign the petition." Click on that link, to enable another person sharing your computer to sign.
You may still see that message if the link you
clicked to view the petition was forwarded to you by someone who copied the URL
of the page after signing the petition. In this case, our database might think
you have already signed. As noted above, just click the link to sign the
petition.
Even if no one else uses your computer,
All signatures are collected at our petition site. Click http://www.thepetitionsite.com/627/208/216/the-inequitable-treatment-delta-retired-pilots-through-and-after-re-organization/
And sign the upper
right hand box. Please enter your name
and details which are completely safe. Please comment but keep all comments
professional.
HOW DO I SHARE? We will not gain the desired
support UNLESS you help us SHARE this message.
1. Get your family members to sign this
2. Secondly, at the site there are SHARE buttons and you can
post this on Facebook or Twitter. You can also email this link. Copy and paste
the link above and distribute to those who will support this cause.
Copy of letter by Jake
Boyd used as a cover when he SHARES the petition:
Hi Mark,
Just wanted to let you know I am doing all I can to spread the word on
this petition. Below is my email that I am sending every possible
contact that I can dig out of my files. If you feel it is appropriate,
you may publish my letter as it may serve as a kind of guideline for
others that may wish to send out something similar.
Thanks kindly,
Jake Boyd L1011 retired 4-1-97
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Everybody,
Most of you know me as a retired Delta Air Lines pilot. Retired 4-1-1997.Some of you are various business contacts.I have sent this email via BCC so your email addresses are protected.
I signed the petition *"Inequitable Treatment of Delta Retired Pilots During & Since Re-organization"*
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/627/208/216/the-inequitable-treatment-delta-retired-pilots-through-and-after-re-organization/.
I'm asking you to sign this petition to help us reach our goal of 5,000 signatures.I care deeply about this cause and I hope you will support our efforts. Please click on the blue link and add your support to our effort. It is easy and you will be able to read many other comments that concerned supporters of our effort are writing. Included on the link page are numerous ways to pass this information to your friends and acquaintances such as Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, and Email so please help us spread the word through one or more of these social medias. A million_ signatures would be a great goal so please help us if you can. Please enter your name and details which are completely safe. Please feel free to comment but keep all comments civil and professional.
BELOW IS MORE INFORMATION AND HISTORY OF THIS SAGA.
You may recall that in September, 2005 *Delta Air Lines*
<http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/14/news/fortune500/delta/>declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy to reorganize their finances and keep operating. Lost in all this news was the fact that the very first day in court, at the request of Delta's attorneys and the blessing of the then working pilots Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), the judge approved the removal of Delta's obligation to pay their retired pilots *earned* pensions. The result was all *the pension funding was turned over* <http://articles.marketwatch.com/2007-01-05/news/30736995_1_pilots-retirement-plan-pbgc-spokesman-edward-bastian>to a government entity called *PBGC* <http://www.pbgc.gov/>or Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. After all the crazy formulas were worked out for each individual retired pilot a small percentage anywhere from zero ( 0%) to approximately thirty (30%) of the pilots original pension amount was deemed to be their new pension and paid monthly from PBGC.
To be fair, each retired pilot did receive some variously sized later settlement funds from the court actions regarding our failed medical insurance and various other items. These were paid in 2 different settlements several years after the Chapter 11 filing. Also, some of us, due to the timing of our retirements, did elect to receive 50% of our *earned* retirement in lump sum upon retirement with the remaining 50% to be paid over our remaining lifetime.In those cases, it is the remaining 50% that is no longer being paid by Delta.
Briefly, to _try_ to explain what PGGC does, I offer the following:
Failed companies that cannot pay their obligations to pension funds get the courts to allow them to turn over whatever remaining funds they have to PGBC which adds them to their master fund. Then, PBGC comes up with very mysterious formulas to determine what each pensioner is entitled to. This entire fund is blended into one big glob and bears absolutely no resemblance to the original pension obligations.
In Delta's case, the pilot’s pension fund was funded but going forward, they did not want the obligation anymore. So, with the blessing of the courts and negotiations with ALPA, the pension obligation for their Delta retired pilots was removed (only this employee group was singled out for this treatment). ALPA does not represent the retired pilots but
in this case they negotiated away the benefits of the retired pilots who had no say whatsoever (we could not afford the required attorney fees).
Ironically, on the same day that Delta filed Chapter 11 in a New York courtroom, Northwest Airlines also filed Chapter 11 in the same courthouse but in a different room with a different judge. Northwest did not ask for the removal of their obligation to continue the pensions of their retired pilots. Now, as most of you know, Delta and Northwest have become one airline named Delta Air Lines. And, guess what, Delta continues to pay the pensions of the retired Northwest Airlines pilots but ignores and refuses to revisit their obligation to pay the pension of their own retired pilots. These are the retired Delta pilots that worked entire careers to build Delta with never a work stoppage for any reason. These same pilots gave their lives and loyalty to this company because they truly believed in and loved making it the best airline
company in the world. Management did what they felt they had to do.
Now, as most of the world can readily see, Delta has recovered pretty well through much work and newer, superior management. We, the retired Delta pilots, are trying to work with this new Delta management to try to restore our pensions. It has been 7 long and difficult years for both sides but we feel the time ripe to try to right this injustice. Maybe they will talk with us if they see this petition has gained so much attention.
Again, a _million_ signatures would be a great goal so please help us if you can.
Thank you so much,
Jake Boyd
Just wanted to let you know I am doing all I can to spread the word on
this petition. Below is my email that I am sending every possible
contact that I can dig out of my files. If you feel it is appropriate,
you may publish my letter as it may serve as a kind of guideline for
others that may wish to send out something similar.
Thanks kindly,
Jake Boyd L1011 retired 4-1-97
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Everybody,
Most of you know me as a retired Delta Air Lines pilot. Retired 4-1-1997.Some of you are various business contacts.I have sent this email via BCC so your email addresses are protected.
I signed the petition *"Inequitable Treatment of Delta Retired Pilots During & Since Re-organization"*
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/627/208/216/the-inequitable-treatment-delta-retired-pilots-through-and-after-re-organization/.
I'm asking you to sign this petition to help us reach our goal of 5,000 signatures.I care deeply about this cause and I hope you will support our efforts. Please click on the blue link and add your support to our effort. It is easy and you will be able to read many other comments that concerned supporters of our effort are writing. Included on the link page are numerous ways to pass this information to your friends and acquaintances such as Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, and Email so please help us spread the word through one or more of these social medias. A million_ signatures would be a great goal so please help us if you can. Please enter your name and details which are completely safe. Please feel free to comment but keep all comments civil and professional.
BELOW IS MORE INFORMATION AND HISTORY OF THIS SAGA.
You may recall that in September, 2005 *Delta Air Lines*
<http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/14/news/fortune500/delta/>declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy to reorganize their finances and keep operating. Lost in all this news was the fact that the very first day in court, at the request of Delta's attorneys and the blessing of the then working pilots Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), the judge approved the removal of Delta's obligation to pay their retired pilots *earned* pensions. The result was all *the pension funding was turned over* <http://articles.marketwatch.com/2007-01-05/news/30736995_1_pilots-retirement-plan-pbgc-spokesman-edward-bastian>to a government entity called *PBGC* <http://www.pbgc.gov/>or Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. After all the crazy formulas were worked out for each individual retired pilot a small percentage anywhere from zero ( 0%) to approximately thirty (30%) of the pilots original pension amount was deemed to be their new pension and paid monthly from PBGC.
To be fair, each retired pilot did receive some variously sized later settlement funds from the court actions regarding our failed medical insurance and various other items. These were paid in 2 different settlements several years after the Chapter 11 filing. Also, some of us, due to the timing of our retirements, did elect to receive 50% of our *earned* retirement in lump sum upon retirement with the remaining 50% to be paid over our remaining lifetime.In those cases, it is the remaining 50% that is no longer being paid by Delta.
Briefly, to _try_ to explain what PGGC does, I offer the following:
Failed companies that cannot pay their obligations to pension funds get the courts to allow them to turn over whatever remaining funds they have to PGBC which adds them to their master fund. Then, PBGC comes up with very mysterious formulas to determine what each pensioner is entitled to. This entire fund is blended into one big glob and bears absolutely no resemblance to the original pension obligations.
In Delta's case, the pilot’s pension fund was funded but going forward, they did not want the obligation anymore. So, with the blessing of the courts and negotiations with ALPA, the pension obligation for their Delta retired pilots was removed (only this employee group was singled out for this treatment). ALPA does not represent the retired pilots but
in this case they negotiated away the benefits of the retired pilots who had no say whatsoever (we could not afford the required attorney fees).
Ironically, on the same day that Delta filed Chapter 11 in a New York courtroom, Northwest Airlines also filed Chapter 11 in the same courthouse but in a different room with a different judge. Northwest did not ask for the removal of their obligation to continue the pensions of their retired pilots. Now, as most of you know, Delta and Northwest have become one airline named Delta Air Lines. And, guess what, Delta continues to pay the pensions of the retired Northwest Airlines pilots but ignores and refuses to revisit their obligation to pay the pension of their own retired pilots. These are the retired Delta pilots that worked entire careers to build Delta with never a work stoppage for any reason. These same pilots gave their lives and loyalty to this company because they truly believed in and loved making it the best airline
company in the world. Management did what they felt they had to do.
Now, as most of the world can readily see, Delta has recovered pretty well through much work and newer, superior management. We, the retired Delta pilots, are trying to work with this new Delta management to try to restore our pensions. It has been 7 long and difficult years for both sides but we feel the time ripe to try to right this injustice. Maybe they will talk with us if they see this petition has gained so much attention.
Again, a _million_ signatures would be a great goal so please help us if you can.
Thank you so much,
Jake Boyd
VARIOUS ISSUES:
The petition page has an apparent conflict with AOL users trying
to view. Others who have PROBLEMS
VIEWING, I believe that may be THAT THE PETITION IS BUSY. PLEASE VISIT IT AGAIN
OR REFRESH YOUR BROWSER PAGE. It also could be a browser issue. Please use IE
or Firefox and it should display just fine. In case you couldn’t read the
actual letter by Rob it is included below.
First, sign the petition WITH YOUR NAME. For crying out
loud, if you believe you have been wronged (or your retired pilot friends
have), then PUT YOUR NAME ON RECORD.
Secondly, family members are in this together. If you have
been harmed so has your spouse. GET FAMILY MEMBERS TO SIGN as well.
Thirdly, YOUR ADDRESS AND EMAIL ARE COMPLETELY SAFE! Don’t
worry, those fields are not included in any public display of our petition. So
do not let that stop you. I can personally guarantee that your info is safe as
the petition administrator because they are only used to verify legitimate
supporters and exclude internet spammers.
Fourthly, “THIS PETITION WON’T CHANGE A THING!” You won’t
win the lottery either without buying a ticket. Listen, I know there is a lot
of negative vibes out there, but WHY POUR COLD WATER ON ROB’S EFFORT WHEN ALL
IT COSTS YOU IS A SIGNATURE? Come on, we seek a unified voice on this, join in.
And lastly, SOME DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE TERMINATION. I have
heard from some who do not understand the issue completely and think we took a
buyout. I can assure all that a termination is more devastating. Retired Delta
Pilots (particularly the 3500 most recent) are receiving a small per centage of
what they earned.
By all means SIGN and by all means add comment but keep all
comments PROFESSIONAL …PLEASE!
+++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wow! Timing is
ripe and emotions are high. Want a great
pass time just read the comments from our group. Listen, I believe the petition has the potential
to be used as a great tool to bring about a good result.
Petition
goal: collect 5,000
supporting signatures
a. 500
received in first 24 hrs.
b. As
of newsletter up to
Petition
completion: When the petition goal is met this
letter will be packaged and delivered to the principle targets.
Petition
follow up:
Goal of
effort: to gain a sit down meeting to discuss ways and
opportunities to right this wrong.
Will
this work?
You know that I can’t say. Like you, I just don’t
know. You may be very pessimistic about
this effort but I can tell you that there is some madness behind this
method. First, step is collecting the
signatures and using the petition as a tool. Then various strategies are in the
formulation stage to increase some pressure to get the sit down meeting that we
deserve. If we meet will it change
anything and what exactly is our proposal?
Both open questions that I think Rob and his wingman will be working
toward specifics for each, and there is a chance that it can be pulled off. Since the cause is righteous,
and since there is a slim chance for a meeting and some changes, the PCN is in
full support.
Become a
volunteer: click on Wingman and become a
volunteer in this effort.
Why am I
behind this effort? I
wish to thank the PCN subscribers for hanging with me during these years and
through many issues of the High Life that didn’t contain very much meaty
information. I view the issues related
to our insurance, our pensions and our lost benefits as different. I view those items as meaty and not only
worth publishing but also worth getting informed about. The petition effort is one of those kinds of
things. This effort touches a nerve with all in some way. It even affects NW and active pilots because
a management team that has their “heart in the right place” assures that all
groups are treated fairly in the future and in retirement. I have always
supported all efforts by our DP3 and still do.
But Rob’s letter (in its original form was substantially more colorful)
struck a chord with me and I think it has with you as well. Fundamentally, none
of us wish to be associated with unfairness.
And none of us wish to work or be represented by a company that is
unfair. Since we were the targeted group
(that the inequity was committed against) we have a vested interest in seeing
this wrong made right.
Will it be
successful? I don’t know, call me crazy,
this is a VERY long shot. But timing has
a lot to do with things and for a variety of reasons I believe the timing is
good for this effort to win its goal.
Rob is a friend and I support his commitment to this and am encouraged
by his willingness to take a lead role.
The PCN is a sponsor and will remain a friend to all those who fight to
make things fairer for our retired pilot group.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: ED MOREY
Date: 12/12/2012 12:21:04 PM
To: Mark Sztanyo
Subject: Petition
Hi Mark,
Just want to say I agree totally with Rick Bauer and Pat
McGirl in that Robert Moser's well written letter to Delta Management and the
Board needs to be published in every major newspaper in the US. I will gladly
contribute to that cause and I did sign the petition even though I know its not
going to change a thing. The inflight video of Richard Anderson referencing
himself to CE Woolman makes me want to puke. Mr Woolman did know about honesty,
integrity and mutual respect. Richard Anderson is a lair and a greedy thief. As
a closing note, "NWA JIM RHODES NEEDS TO TAKE HIS MONEY AND KEEP HIS
OVERLOADED MOUTH SHUT, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE KNOW SO VERY LITTLE".
Ed Morey
Captain MD-11 Retired 07/1997
Editor: First, Ed I appreciate your support of this
effort. Secondly, this is in no way a
battle with NW (now Delta pilots). Their
management worked with them to preserve their hard earned pension. That is all we are asking of the Delta management. The PCN welcomes all NWA pilots and has a
growing contingent and the reason is we don’t bash ANY pilot group. Instead we serve our pilot community. We are not battling one another in this and
in fact we’re not battling any other employee group. All the DAL retired pilots are asking is that
management treat them fairly and it is high time that that be done!
+++++
From: LLRodammer@aol.com
Date: 12/13/12 14:01:54
Subject: Fwd:
Inequitable Treatment of Delta Retired Pilots During & Since Re-organiza...
Mark:
I sent this letter to John Ley to include in his newsletter. I
figured it can't hurt, right?
I will send out a similar letter to the Delta Golden Wings
Members.
Best,
Larry Rodammer
From: LLRodammer@aol.com
To: PilotJPL@aol.com
Sent: 12/13/2012 1:51:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: Inequitable Treatment of Delta Retired Pilots During & Since Re-organiza...
To: PilotJPL@aol.com
Sent: 12/13/2012 1:51:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: Inequitable Treatment of Delta Retired Pilots During & Since Re-organiza...
John:
Would you please include this letter in your
next newsletter. Thanks for your support!
Best Regards,
Larry
Dear Friends:
A fellow Delta Pilot Retiree, Captain Rob
Moser, is requesting Delta's CEO, Richard Anderson, to reinstate the Retired
Delta Pilot's earned retirement pay which was taken from them during Delta's
Bankruptcy in 2005.
This would be a much better idea than buying
back Delta Stock which Mr. Anderson is considering right now. The "good
will" created and leadership displayed by making this moral obligation
right would help elevate Delta Airlines to the lofty position it once held.
Rob is trying to get at least 5,000
signatures on his petition. You can read the remarks of several Retired Delta
Pilots on the link below----there are a lot of hurting folks out there!
Would you do me a huge favor and sign the
petition accessible on the link below; if you want, you can add a comment.
Thank you for your support,
Larry Rodammer
Captain Delta Airlines, Retired
+++++
|
From: William Melvin
Date: 12/14/2012 2:31:50 PM
Subject: Pilot pension & bankruptcy
|
|
|
|
|
Regarding the petition for Delta to pay pensions according
to the agreement of 1972; the bankruptcy, in my opinion, was for the specific
reason to get rid of the pilot pension guarantees.
Those who were on the seniority list in 1972 may recall the
old A and B plans. The A plan was a defined benefit plan based on a guarantee
of 2% of salary earned, payable for life at age 60 (30 years of service meant
60% of average salary; not final salary). This was funded at a very
conservative rate of 3 or 3.5 percent; I have forgotten which. The B plan was a
variable annuity which was more like a defined contributions plan; it purchased
units payable for life at age 60, based on 1.26 percent of salary. The B plan
was funded with a growth assumption of 3 or 3.5 percent, but all growth greater
than the funding discount at original purchase of units, both before and after
retirement, belonged to the pilot.
So, with all that in place, along came Tom Bebee with his
Delta Family Care Plan which would guarantee 60% FAE in lieu of the A and B
plans. About 200 of the most senior pilots would see their pensions
substantially increase. Those retiring immediately would see about $1,200 per
month instead of $600, but with no growth after retirement. Today, one of those
pilots would have about $4,600 per month if the old plans had been kept in
place and the fund growth had been equal to the S&P 500.
When the Bebee plan was promoted, I, with the help of Bob
Boniol, began to raise the alarm of getting rid of the B plan. Bob was a member
of the Delta R&I Committee who resigned because the chairman was not
coordinating with the committee and was having his own private meetings with
the company directed at trading the A and B plans for the 60 FAE, accompanied
by a much higher funding assumption.
Because of our concerns there was a meeting with the MEC
chaiman, a representative of the negotiating committee, the chairman of the
R&I committee and myself (Bob was on a trip) where there was a promise that
the B plan would not be touched and only an adjustment to A plan funding would
be allowed for the 60 FAE. This agreement was told to the MEC, which did not
object.
They lied! Being called to account by Bob and myself, with
examples posted to pilots which were at first declared "we couldn't have
screwed up that bad" to later "look what we got for it", there
were serious concerns amoung the pilots.
Then, Tom Bebee made the guarantee that no pilot presently
on the seniority list would get less at retirement than he would have had under
the old plans, based upon a pseudo unit value of the B plan at 1.2 times
S&P 500. That blew the wind out of our sails as far as winning the argument
for not destroying the B plan. Even then they told another lie which was that
the new plan was fully funded.
In our last letter to the MEC, Bob and I warned of the
future when there would be two classes of pilots, those with the guarantee and
those without. With the outstanding growth of the S&P 500 in the 1990's,
gurantees based on the pseudo growth formula soared way beyond what the pension
plan could pay. Pilot's with guarantees were falling over themselves to get
what they could while they could; while pilot's without the guarantee didn't
care and in fact opposed the depletion of the fund.
So, then the bankruptcy and now the situation that
regardless of how passoniate the plea or how sympathetic the audience, there
will be great resistance and possible legal challanges from stockholders,
current employees and non guarantee pilot retirees to a plan that gives up a
large portion of company profits to pay pension guarantees prior to the
bankruptcy.
If you want to find fault, look back to 1972. If you want to
speculate as to what might have been, talk to an American Airlines pilot.
William
W. (Bill) Melvin~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Full post disclaimer in left column. PCN Home Page is located at: http://pcn.homestead.com/home01.html
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